I 98% Concede the OBE/Lucid Dream Debate

[This is a high quality sales pitch video. You wonder if these guys really believe this stuff is real. Notice how in the video, the trick is to be able to tell whether you are in the dream state or not while lying in bed. If you are, you will be able to move your “astral” arms and legs without disturbing your body . If you are not in the dream state, you will move your real arms and lose your trance (as I did a few nights ago).]

It appears that OBEs are merely a sub-class of lucid dreaming. The difference appears to be only in the timing for which the dream state is entered into. If it is entered early on in the process more directly from the waking state (what researchers call WILDS as opposed to DILDS), one gets the impression that they are still lying in bed, and naturally, the way the dreaming mind makes sense of this is to roll out of the body and start floating around.

The reason people’s hands go right through the door is because tactile sensation is not something the mind invents. It is something that happens to the body when it encounters a force. So during the dream, you put your hand on the door knob expecting it to push back on its own and to register the solidness. But it doesn’t so your hand goes right through. However, it seems to me that if someone was really dreaming in the OOB state, they should be able to imagine being able to open the imaginary door and feel the imaginary doorknob. But maybe not.

There are still some mysteries which make me think that maybe there is some psi component to it. But those who know they are having lucid dreams probably report veridical experiences just as often as those who think they are OOB! Both are radically inefficient.

So now I am *really* curious… how did miss Zzzz cheat? Was it the reflecting clock? Was it all just made up? I used to laugh at those who would say “maybe it was mere telepathy”, yet now I wonder if it was mere telepathy. Did Charles Tart construct such a poor experimental design that one could memorize a 5 digit number they saw? Why did it take her several nights to see the number? She must have really believed she could do it. If she could read the number somehow with her eyes, why did she wait three nights be successful? Because the clock reflection was blurry the first two nights? I would literally kidnap this woman from the supermarket!

Although I am 98% sure that the OBE is a subclass of lucid dream, I am also 98% sure that NDE OBEs are the same thing. Why would NDE OBEs be better at giving veridical accounts? Do we even know they are? Is there a continuum of accuracy depending on what degree the “body consciousness” is interfering with the imagery? Is the NDE the only time when the body consciousness is totally not interfering?

Or, a far more simple explanation- we are exterminated at bodily death and all of these things are a sham.

How can we find out?



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